Bill Harris Racing System – AVOID!!

If you're anything like me, dear reader, you get lots of emails and the occasional mailshot promoting numerous of the panoply of racing systems and tipster services out there. And, if you're anything like me, you often wonder whether their performance actually matches their headline claims... So it was with interest that I received a mailshot from the Bill Harris Racing System (by AD Associates) this morning.

A superlative mailshot it was too (I'm a bit of a student of such things!): 20 page full colour brochure on thick glossy paper; a further four page colour insert; and yet another two sided insert; confidentiality agreement; and order form.

Grand promises too. In point of fact, a three grand promise. "Make £3,000 in the next eight weeks or get double your money back". How can we possibly lose? Hmm...

Furthermore, the blurb assured me that the service had been proofed to Racing-Index. Indeed it has, under a different name - Pro Punter Betting.

And the performance quoted was indeed the performance achieved in the period prior to advertising. But herein lies the problem. My hackneyed catchphrase, 'After a good run, expect a bad run' comes readily to mind.

(Incidentally, this caught me out recently when a promotion for my own Laying System following a good run, led to a glut of free trialists and... predictably enough, with hindsight... a very poor run, from which we're now recovering).

So, it is perhaps not a surprise that since the promotion started, the wheels have fallen off the Bill Harris / Pro Punter system. Indeed, their results have descended off a cliff...

No problem though, because of course you can get a refund. And not just any old refund, but a double your money refund at that! Except... well, except it seems you can't. Reports from the respected 'What Really Wins Money' service, run by Clive Keeling, suggest that it's a protracted affair trying to recoup your monies from AD Associates. The quote I read stated it took around three months for AD to get back to the disgruntled customer. In many cases, the refund was simply refused.

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My advice on Bill Harris / Pro Punter / anything from AD Associates (who are highly active postal advertisers), is steer well clear...


Now for something completely different... I've received some rather fetching photos of our new pet, Obvious. She's a beautiful looking beast, and Julia said "she is floating when cantering - she seems too good to be true".

Now I've had bits of nag with Julia since 2000, and she's rarely given to hyperbole, so I think she's genuinely very pleased with how Obvious is coming along. It's still very early days, so let's see how things pan out. But, for now, we're all getting a bit excited!


Finally, there's one I quietly fancy tonight at Kempton. Although Gavin's favourite, Action Impact, should go close in the first, it is in the last race that I'm playing.

A 14 runner Class 6 handicap may not be everyone's cup of tea, and - in fairness - this is a bit of a straw clutcher, but... she's finished 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th in her last four starts over course and distance; she's finished 1st, 2nd, 5th in her three starts over course, distance and in the grade; she's getting weight from all her rivals; and... she's a 10/1 shot, nibbled from 12's early.

Her name? Convallaria (each way).

Ciao pronto!


p.s. Please help me out with my little bit of market research, and answer my question on your three favourite things here at Geegeez. Just tick the boxes in the top right of the blog (question of the week), and you'll see the results so far. Thanks for your help - it's much appreciated!

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40 replies
  1. Arthur Judge says:

    I got involved with AD Associates to, I cancelled my subscription, which went well for the next month, however they took the £30 this month and sent thier monthly package including a laying software dvd, except there was no dvd, I have tried to talk to a Mr King, who refuses to answer my calls, I will cancel my subscription again at the bank, and hopefully that will be an end to it, I have also recieved the Bill Harris scam mailshot, needlesss to say I will not be joining.


  2. Steve says:

    I’ve also received a lot of mail through the post from this lot (haven’t bought from them though), and have received Bill Harris’ stuff twice in the past few weeks – must be costing him a good few quid with that glossy stuff!

  3. Suckered says:

    Yes All, avoid A.D scumbags at all cost. I’ve been done by them before. They’ve been around quite a while now, which is amazing considering the garbage they produce.

    You’ve been warned!

  4. William says:

    I also joined the A.D Associates a few months ago but when I got the package through I looked it through and I found that their whole system was built on Strategy so I cancelled straight away. Now they send me the Bill Harris System Package every week. How can the afford to keep going with all these costs.


  5. Sim says:

    Hi Matt, I also have received loads from AD, probably about 5 glossy brochures in the last 6 weeks, they sound either desperate or a scam cos if they were that good surely they wouldn’t have to keep pushing it, thanks for the heads up anyway. Sim

    • Matt Bisogno says:

      Hi guys

      I’m afraid I have to tell you they’re not desperate. It costs about £1.40 per mailing ‘piece’ (i.e. per letter sent) for a glossy set like that. They will be mailing 10,000+ each time, meaning a cost to them of £14,000 per 10,000 mailing.

      If they’re still mailing you, there are a LOTLOTLOT of people being taken in by them…


  6. georgegray says:

    Not the first time I have received mailings from A.D.Associates. I think the last one I received I sent back asking them to get themselves a decent job.

  7. john lamont says:

    thanks matt i also got the scam this morning
    it’s already binned, i’m over 61 years old and
    i’ve never seen 31 days in april yet.
    Anyway good luck with obvious i just hadn’t spondulux
    to contribute at this time.

  8. Charles says:

    I am still chasing AD for a refund after 6 months – they ignore all correspondence – Charles

  9. Rupert Nicholson says:

    Never heard of either of them!
    The thing as far as I’m concerned is, anyone can promise a fancy refund policy like that but it doesn’t mean they are going to necessarily deliver on it!! So therefore a 200% refund promise wouldn’t sway me… that’s not to say that I’ll never fall for something like that because there’s always the chance I might fall for some scam sometime.
    Anyway, I’m thinking of packing up the racing game after recently receiving an email from Western Union to say a payment of £1 million pounds was waiting for me. oh, I just remembered – I reported that as a phishing scam and lost the email, tsk…

  10. Michael says:

    Looks like we’re all on the same mailing list as I got the same c**p through today. It’ll go in the recycling bin so it’s not a total waste!! haha

  11. John McDonald says:

    What can you tell me about Michael Wright one years free trial at no cost and Jack Cavanagh one years free trial.

    web site

    • Matt Bisogno says:

      Hi John

      I can tell you that apparently the guy’s never had a loser, as he quotes profits for all the horses listed…!

      That isn’t an ideal start point for me – I also got something through the post from these guys. I think, basically, you might actually be better off sticking to internet based products.

      If a product is sold through clickbank, you can always get a refund direct from them. And I will only ever recommend products where I know the guarantee is sound. And of course, I always provide free trials or refunds (or both) on my products.

      Hope that helps,

  12. Paul says:

    I am also a victim of the thieves at AD Associates, I got the ring
    back after 3 months scenario to get a refund but there was never
    anyone around to deal with my request. ”I only answer the phone”
    was what I was fobbed off with. Wrote the expense off and put it
    down to experience.
    I still receive mailings from them and if they have a return
    envelope that does not require me to put a stamp on it then I send
    it back to them. I suggest everyone should do this as I assume they
    will still have to pay the postage and have the hassle of opening
    numerous envelopes with empty forms like their empty crap systems!

  13. eugene mcallister says:

    Hi Matt, I also received the aforementioned mailing saying I was only 1 of 35 people invited to be in on this!!!!! how do these people afford these mailshots the printing must be about a fiver? anyway thanks for the warning. By the way have you tried Michael Wright Racing I’ve just received a card for a free trial with them? Cheers Eugene

  14. Simon says:

    AD Associates have done me as well, have not tried for a refund yet but will do. From the sounds of it won’t have much luck. Will never be sucked in by them again.


  15. francis muldoon says:

    hi matt, i got my brochure yesterday and having read through it, i smelt a rat right away and promptly binned it.
    punters have been duped by con artists for years,
    and will continue to do so if they believe these rags to riches claims by these con artists.

  16. john t says:

    Just been sent the Bill Harris system for the 3rd time and must admit i was thinking of ordering it. But was reading my e-mails at the same time ,thank the lord because ive read your column and reports so it looks like ive saved myself a pile of money. My thanks to you and everyone who e-mailed their story.

  17. bill fieseler says:

    hi matt, i,m ashamed to admit i too got taken in with some 8 months ago,what i do now is wait till i get another mail-shot on racing @send them that in their own paid for envolope.

  18. cha bi says:

    Sure2profit is another that promises a refund. However you have difficulty emailing them since they say to write the letters below to accessthem. there are no letters below so your mail cannot be sent.Then no one answers their phone(it is out of order always) No reply from the Fax # they so gleefully provide. Nice scam that.

  19. kevin bamforth says:

    i think it was clive keeling that said “BEWARE THE GLOSSY BROCHURE BRIGADE “. great advice!!as someone who has previously sent for such rubbish,i now just bin them all.and read the odd few just for a laugh!!:))))

  20. Wolsely says:

    Dear Matt,
    Thank you for all the woderfull views on the various betting systems, I have not been tempted to try Bill Harris System.

    However having used Kris Jackmans as a tipster for some time, and found him an excelent tipster, he sent me an email sometime in April 2009, reccomending a certain guy in Australia called Mick, with a site called Racing Maestro, so I decided to try it, paid my money on the 20/04/09 and as to this day I have not received one solitary tip from him, I have sent over 20emails to him, also to Clickbank, to get my money back, but without success.

    I would like you to print this, because, as you say some of these betting sites are not all they seem. Keep up the good work, lets get rid of all these thieves.

    Best regards Wolsely.

  21. chris says:

    hi matt and everyone on here
    i get about 15 to 20 mailshots/emails each week
    i can honestly say that ive never fell for any

    as i see it if its so good why sell it just use it your self and win loads of money
    and dont belive all the crap about closed accounts / barred from the bookies for winning too much
    people dont get barred from exchanges for winning too much so no excuse

    Rupert Nicholson
    if you read this you can have 1 of the many emails i get each day saying that ive got millions of £/$ to collect so dont worry with the money you can join A D ass++++sociates lol lol
    ++++ = hole

  22. Ian says:

    About 3 year I had dealings with AD and tyhey ignored countless emails for a refund , only when I informed my credit card company amd they stepped in did they refund, if you look at other websites that cover system and tipster reviews their name crops up time and again with people they have CONNED, be warnwed and stay away

  23. john cuff says:


    I’m sure this isnt the forum to raise this issue, so my apologies for doing so, however I’m a “victim” of Mr.Lucky. I’m currently £4000 out of pocket and at present am not having any luck whatsoever contacting him. He guaranteed that all contributors monies were safe, I think not, Do you or any of your readers/co-contributors have any knowledge of him? I’m considering going to the police regarding this fraud

  24. Dave says:

    Don’t bin them, don’t, instead, have a dump in the envelope and send it back with the words “You sent me some of your shit so i thought id send you some of mine”

    Im a tipster myself and an honest one, im not going to say what service as that would be spam, but its people like that that give honest tipsters a bad name.


  25. John Rowe says:

    I am very guillable to these things and thank god i found this via google search

    I HAVE A JIM PENDERS POWER BET SYSTEM? from A.D associates and wondering if it works? as the results show some good bets using dutching method

  26. MrBee says:

    Hi Matt
    I too have had this guys marketing material shoved through my door. Just like all the other rubbish it goes in the bin.
    There is no golden system or insider knowledge that can change your fortunes overnight. Think about it, if you created a winning system would it not make more sense to keep it to yourself?
    Learning how to look for value and knowing your chosen sport inside out is the way to go.
    Great site by the way.


  27. William says:

    Hi Matt
    Thanks for the warning had a problem with AD before, I know clickbank is ok for refunds but do you know if the same applies to paypal, as some people use them and if I don’tlike the product like to get the refund as clickbank offer which cuts out the seller.
    So far have not risked a paypal order, so much rubbish being pushed it is now impossible to trust most I am afraid.
    Thanks for your efforts regards William

  28. J.COX says:

    Thankyou for your newsletter and especially the warning about Bill Harris and glossey bochure with its 42% strike and making one £3000 in 31 days.Have you any information on the 5 minute system that I am being bombarded with at the moment it claims to make you £5.60 for 5 minutes work on Betfair any time of the day. Regards J.Cox.

  29. Peter says:


    Paypal actual guarantee nothing… you have been warned!

    They work on ‘best endevours’ which are ultimately worthless if the seller won’t refund you! I have found out this the hard way because I automatically thought my money was safe.

    Buying on Ebay and using PayPal I believe is guaranteed but that is another story.

  30. Arthur Judge says:

    Hi Matt,

    Just a postscript to yesterday`s post, A.D. Associates address of 78 York Street in London is actually just a mailbox address, I have heard they are actually based in Paisley in Scotland, not sure how true this is but I will try to track them down, if anyone has anymore info can you let me know.

    Arthur J

  31. roy carter says:

    I have seen the Melchoir System advertised a lot in the Racing Post and mailshots. I have tried several free trials of it but it has not delivered anything like the results they claim. Has anyone tried this method long-term and with what results?

  32. Rupert Nicholson says:

    John McDonald on this thread asked about Jack Kavanagh, he ofered me a free trial earlier in the year so I took it up. Unfortunately the results were a series of losers.
    Then I got a letter some time later apologising for the results which he said were unusually poor and he said he’d speak to connections to find out what had gone wrong and that people would be getting an extra free period to compensate for this bad run. I heard no more then but after a while I received a letter to say now I’d seen how good the service was, would I like to join? I declined.
    Then I had a letter a little later saying I could join free for a whole year! Not a bad offer, I thought, so I phoned in to put my name down… but found that, yes it was free, but I had to put £50 or something like that ( you probably know what’s coming next !) on his tips for him. Oh no, ohh no, sorry, not that old game!

  33. Andrew' says:

    Bill Haris is also the name of some american selling “the secret” esoteric “attract your perfect life” lectures.

    You can tell who the professional gamblers are as they will be the ones showing you five years of results. Have access to software like Racing Systems Builder and publsih results of trial systems.

    Avoid those that keep things shrouded in mystery the only thing that works is P(w)*E -P(x)>0. If E (expected return or bookmakers odds) goes down then the system stops working. Simply because the amount of money backing the working system reduces the bookmakers odds making the above formula go from profit (greater than 0) to costly or (less than zero ).

    P(w) = probability of win
    P(L) = Probability of loss
    E = expected return

  34. terry says:

    The best thing in my life was when I finally decided to make my own selections and not rely on others to find winners for me. Sure it has taken me a while to find the knack of picking winners but now I’m doing reasonably well.

    The racing post charge has unfortunately scuppered one of methods as I’m not to keen on paying for the info I needed for this one but my other methods keep me going.

    So my advice would be don’t pay someone for something you can do yourself.

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