Tag Archive for: Lingfield racecourse

Racing Insights, Wednesday 01/03/23

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Wednesday's free Geegeez GOLD feature, the Trainer Statistics (TS) report is, in fact, four reports in one. It contains information on a trainer’s recent form, and their longer term course form. For each of 14 day, 30 day, course one year, and course five year, users can filter by runs, wins, places, win profit/loss and each way profit/loss. Clicking on any row in the report will reveal the runners that trainer has entered on the day in question, and clicking on the runner row will open that race in a new tab.

HINT: It can help to cross refer the profit figures of the trainer with their win/place percentage. A few big priced winners can mean a trainer has a high profit number but a low strike rate. You may need to be very patient, and a bit lucky, to come out in front this way!

[ Please refer to our User Guide for further information ]

In addition to the free daily feature, we always open up a number of racecards to non-Gold subscribers and for Wednesday, they are...

  • 2.00 Lingfield
  • 3.35 Lingfield
  • 3.55 Musselburgh
  • 6.00 Kempton

My own personal settings for the TS report...

...have highlighted a handful of trainers in good 30-day form but just one other runner elsewhere...

As you can see, the Geegeez-sponsored yard of Anthony Honeyball is absolutely flying right now and he sends three runners to Wincanton, but the racing on Wednesday as whole is pretty poor and I'd be wary of putting too much cash at risk anywhere.

But for this column, the show must go on, so I've just selected a competitive-looking A/W sprint with a few relatively in-form runners competing to land the near-£8,000 prize for the 2.30 Lingfield, an 8-runner, Class 5, 3yo A/W handicap over a left handed 6f on standard polytrack...

Expert Agent, Two Desserts, Daytona Lady and Rossmore nation all won last time out, whilst Girlswannahavefun and Talamanca both won two starts ago. the latter also won five starts ago, but Beautiful Sunshine and Muy Muy Guapo are both 4-race maidens, but BS has been a runner-up in three of his four starts. Bottom weight Rossmore Nation is the only class mover, stepping up one grade.

Two Desserts makes a handicap debut and Muy Muy Guapo has a second bite of the cherry. Half of these (Expert Agent, Daytona Lady, Talamanca and Rossmore Nation) have already won over 6f, but none of the field have won here at Lingfield. Mind you, only three have been here and two have made the frame.

Talamanca runs for the first time since mid-October and Expert Agent has had an eight-week break, but the other half dozen have all been seen in the last 40 days with Rossmore Nation's win last Tuesday the most recent of all runs. In addition to our four (3 on A/W) 6f winners, we have four winners on standard going and four Class 5 A/W winners and a couple of runners quite heavily penalised for their LTO wins...

Talamanca looks the most unsuccessful exposed horse there and with a 0 from 6 record on the A/W, you've got to think that this is a pipe-opener after a long break so he can be ready for the Flat season with him being 3 from 3 over 6f on turf. One of the two fillies, Daytona lady looks best on those numbers and I'm not too keen on the three with lines of red. of the five with green, Expert Agent and Rossmore Nation will find this tougher than their LTO wins now that they're up 8lbs and 6lbs respectively and with Rossmore Nation also up in class, he'll need to be on his A-game.

He's drawn in stall 8, which in fairness, doesn't have a great record in such contests...

...but considering it's a short race with a bend, there's not as much of a bias as you might expect and stalls 4 & 5 where you might think would be a good starting point, haven't been great either. If you could cherry pick, you'd want box 2 where Two Desserts will come from. he's also likely to want to get out sharpish, if recent efforts are to be relied upon...

...and those races above have lended themselves to early pace...

...which makes this pace/draw heatmap unsurprisingly lop-sided...

...and with our field's average pace scores overlaid...

...you'd probably want to be on Two Desserts and/or Talamanca.

Summary

Looking back to pace/draw with are so important in these non-straight sprints, it was Two Desserts and Talamanca ho caught the eye, but the latter is coming back from a 133-day absence, hasn't run on the A/W for over six months and his record in this sphere reads no win, two places from six efforts. Two Desserts, on the other hand, is in good form and won last time out. He's unexposed, isn't too harshly treated on handicap debut and should go really well at a big-looking 15/2 with Bet365, ideal for an E/W bet if nothing else.

Elsewhere, I'd expect the likes Expert Agent (who won easily LTO) and Rossmore Nation to be heavily involved. Both are likely to go off sub-5/1 and if running like he did last time, Expert Agent could well be the one to beat, even from an indifferent pace/draw perspective.

Racing Insights, Friday 17/02/23

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Friday's free feature, the Horses for Courses (H4C) report does exactly what it says on the tin ie it shows the full course history since 2009 of any horse running that has previously had a run at the track and is sorted by number of wins, but this can be changed to any column at your discretion.

As well as today’s race time, course, horse name, jockey and trainer name, there is a breakdown of runs, wins and places, and profit and loss calculations for both win and each way betting and as with all Geegeez reports, there is a ‘Today’ and a ‘Tomorrow’ (for the next day’s racing) view.

HINT: Layers might like to look towards the lower end of the report, for those with negative performance at the track, but as ever please refer to our User Guide for further information!

My own settings (you get to choose your own parameters) for the H4C report...

...are quite restrictive but have still produced four qualifiers...

Our daily feature is always supplemented by a number of 'free' racecards...

  • 1.50 Lingfield
  • 3.20 Lingfield
  • 3.55 Dundalk
  • 4.40 Fakenham
  • 6.00 Dundalk

The second of those 'free' races has a runner from the H4C report, so why do we have a see how Starshiba might get on in the 3.20 Lingfield, an 8-runner, Class 3, 4yo+ A/W handicap over a left handed mile on standard polytrack...

We'll start with Starshiba's record at this venue which reads 3113137 including 1137 over course and distance. As for the field as a whole, only Unforgotten won last time out and comes here seeking a hat-trick on just his second start in a handicap. He's only had four runs so far, finishing 2211 including 211 at this track/trip, making him the 'form' horse, but only Farasi Lane is winless in five.

Larado is the only one to have raced at this Class 3 least time around, as sole class-dropper Darwell Lion ran at Class 2, whilst Unforgotten, Lord Rapscallion, Farasi Lane, Starshiba and Enough Already all step up from Class 4, but bottom weight Brunel Charm was well beaten in a Kempton Class 5. That was just over four months ago and aside from Darwell Lion's 52-day rest and Lord Rapscallion's run four weeks ago, the rest of the field have all seen action this month already.

Larado has won over 1m½f and Brunel Charm over 7f, but they are a combined 0 from 20 at today's trip, whilst the others have all won at the trip. Brunel Charm has at least won on this track over 7f and Brunel Charm scored over 1m2f, whilst Darwell Lion, Unforgotten and Starshiba, are all course and distance winners as shown here...

...where my early concerns centre around Larado (Going/Distance), Farasi Lane (Weight), Enough Already (Going/Distance) and Brunel Charm (Going/Distance) and their numbers on the place stats do little to inspire confidence either...

And if I was to omit those four from my thoughts for now, I'd be left with runners in stalls 3, 6, 7 & 8, so i'm hoping that if there's a draw bias here, it's in the favour of those drawn highest! There isn't a huge advantage to be gained, but given a choice based on the following stats...

...I'd prefer not to be where Darwell Lion is drawn, although closer inspection shows that stall 3 is actually the best of the low draws and has figures not too dissimilar to those drawn highest...

...so I wouldn't rule him out just yet. And whilst there's little to separate them on the draw off over 450 races, there's certainly a pace bias at play with front-runners doing best of all...

...where the basic/general premise is that the further forward you race, the better the chance you have of making the frame and ultimately going on to win, which based on this field's last four runs will suit Unforgotten more than the others...

Of the four we were looking at, Darwell Lion and Starshiba really look up against it from a hold-up position, but all Starshiba's wins/good form here at Lingfield have come from the back, so it's not impossible, but ideally you're a high drawn front runner...

Summary

After shedding half of the field at the Instant Expert phase, I was left with Darwell Lion, Unforgotten, Lord Rapscallion and Starshiba, from which Darwell Lion looks the weakest carrying top weight in poor form and running from the back of the field, so he'll not make my final three.

Of the three, Unforgotten has the best pace/draw profile, he scored well on Instant Expert and brings the best form (2211) to the table and I'd be very surprised if he didn't win this relatively comfortably off a mark just 4lbs higher than his course and distance win a fortnight ago. That was his first run for almost 23 months and it took a while for him to get going, but was quite cosy in the end and should come on for the run. Starshiba was 3.25 lengths further back that day and is now 5lbs better off with the winner, so you'd hope/expect him to get a bit nearer this time.

As for Lord Rapscallion, he steps up in class and up to a mile for the first time, but looks the type who seems to find a bit more when needed as typified by back to back wins by a shorthead at Chelmsford in December, doing all his best work late on. He would seem to be the weaker of this trio, but I wouldn't rule out his chances of making the frame.

Sadly, the bookies are also very keen on Unforgotten and he's just the wrong side of even money with both firms currently open for this race (Hills & Bet365) and both go 15/2 about the other pair. I'd expect more money to come for the fav and that might make bothStarshiba and Lord Rapscallion more attractive as E/W propositions.

 

 

Racing Insights, Friday 03/02/03

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Friday is Horses For Courses (H4C) report day at Geegeez and this feature does exactly what you'd expect, as it shows the full course history since 2009 of any horse running that has previously had a run at that track, sorted by number of wins, but this can be changed to any column at your discretion.

As well as today’s race time, course, horse name, jockey and trainer name, there is a breakdown of runs, wins and places, and profit and loss calculations for both win and each way betting. And as with all Geegeez reports, there is a ‘Today’ and a ‘Tomorrow’ (for the next day’s racing) view.

HINT: Layers might like to look towards the lower end of the report, for those with negative performance at the track, but please refer to our User Guide for further information.

My chosen settings for the report...

...have yielded four qualifiers for Friday...

...and I can also fall back upon our daily list of 'free' races...

  • 1.40 Catterick
  • 4.05 Chepstow
  • 4.30 Dundalk
  • 4.40 Chepstow
  • 6.15 Newcastle

...and having made the frame in all seven (six x handicap) career runs at Lingfield, we should see how Starshiba might fare back there for the 2.50 race, a 10-runner, Class 4, 4yo+ A/W handicap over a left handed mile on standard polytrack...

Starshiba has 3 wins and 3 places from his last six outings, but both Brains (on a hat-trick here) and Unforgotten are the ones who won last time out. The latter, however, carries top weight up in class on handicap debut after an absence of 22 months and might well need a run.

Tropez Power, Enough Already, Gavi Gavi and George Morland have also all won relatively recently with just Farasi Lane, Million Thanks and bottom weight Dashing Dick on losing runs of 11, 5 and 10 races respectively with the latter having a 0 from 12 record on the A/W.

Aside from Unforgotten, none of these are moving class and none have been off track for more than four months with all bar Farasi Lane having raced inside the last five weeks, but he has been off for 109 days during which time he has undergone wind surgery.

Enough Already is showing as having a change of yard and he's now back with Lee Carter, less than eleven months after moving out of the yard. Since then he's had a win and two places from five runs for Henry Spiller and then finished 4th of 8 in both starts for Tony Carroll before finding himself back with Mr Carter.

He has won here over 1m2f and over a mile at Brighton & Yarmouth, but has no course and distance win. That, however, has been achieved by our H4C horse, Starshiba (who has finished 113 in three efforts over C&D), Brains, Gavi di Gavi and George Morland, whilst Tropez Power, Farasi Lane and Million Thanks have at least all won over a mile elsewhere. Only top and bottom weights, Unforgotten and Dashing Dick are winless at both course and distance and this will be reflected by Instant Expert...

Unforgotten is making just a fourth start, but has been a course and distance runner-up at a lower class twice already and may need the run after such a long absence. Tropez Power has ran well on the A/W so far, finishing 61313, but only the '6' came on polytrack when well beaten over 7f at Kempton. Farasi Lane is now some 15lbs higher than his last A/W win, but has actually won off 2lbs higher on turf.

Brains looks consistently solid, but his best form has come on the slower surface at Kempton. Starshiba's only blot is his Class 4 record, but he was a runner-up on both occasions, running on over 7f, so a mile might suit better. Enough Already, however, has struggled to win at Class 4 with a 1/8 record and his best form has been on turf. Gavi di Gavi hasn't this track or trip particularly well in the past, even if he did win over course and distance back in March 2021 and he's still 5lbs higher than that run.

George Morland's numbers are interesting, but his 3 from 3 record at Class 5 compared to 1 from 9 at this level suggests this will be too tough for him, whilst Dashing Dick is just 2 from 29 overall and although he has made the frame in half of his dozen A/W outings, he has yet to break his duck and doesn't look like changing that here.

Our Draw Analyser for similar past races here at Lingfield doesn't show a huge bias...

...but does suggest that the stalls 5 to 9 corridor might have a slight advantage, as they'd hit the turn a little wider and be able to 'cut' the corner and almost slingshot out of it, which is good news for featured runner, Starshiba, who will no doubt let the others get on with things and wait his time at the back, if his last few races are anything to go by...

Brains & possibly the returning Unforgotten are the likeliest front-runners, although going off quickly might not help the latter after such a long lay-off, whilst Starshiba might well have some company at the back of the field, which isn't generally the best placed to be here at Lingfield over a mile as the pace stats from those races above would suggest...

Starshiba is clearly the exception to the rule here, with his excellent record from a hold-up position and were it not for that record, you'd be right to doubt his ability to make up the ground.

Summary

Starshiba has made the frame in all seven visits to Lingfield and has finished 113 in three efforts over this course and distance, despite having a pace profile completely at odds with the way things normally go here. He is, however, well drawn and I can see him making the frame again here. Whether he wins or not is debatable, he was beaten by two heads into third on his last visit off 2lbs lower, so the odds are that a place is as good as it'll get, but at 15/2 early doors, could be a viable E/W proposition.

That market has Unforgotten installed as the 9/4 fav, but he really could be something or nothing. There are too many unknowns about him for my liking and if pushed, I'd prefer the likes of the 5/1 Brains to finish ahead of him.

Racing Insights, Saturday 21/01/23

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Another cold day expected on Saturday where the free feature is the Trainer/Jockey Combo (TJC) report, which works by bringing together the form of trainers and jockeys into a single composite report that has produced excellent results for users. Basically, some trainers turn to specific riders when they have one ‘ready to win’ and this report quickly identifies the most profitable of those combinations. Clicking on any row will reveal the entries for that trainer/jockey pairing whilst clicking on the entry will open the race in a new tab.

HINT: Look for a good sample size – ideally five or more – combined with a decent win percentage (30%+), and a positive figure in the profit column and as ever, please refer to our User Guide for further information.

My own settings for the TJC Report look like this...

...and they have generated the following runners for me to consider...

...in addition to our daily list of 'free' racecards, which were set to be...

  • 12.40 Ascot
  • 1.30 Haydock
  • 2.12 Lingfield
  • 3.00 Ascot
  • 4.20 Taunton
  • 6.30 Wolverhampton

Seeing as we've already lost Ascot and Taunton and there are doubts over Haydock and Southwell, I'm going to hang fire and wait until Saturday morning before adding my preview.

As those of us up in the North West expected, we lost Haydock too, leaving me with two 'free' races and two possibles from the TJC Report. The best (on paper, at least) of those four races is the one featuring the Haggas/Marquand combo above, the 2.47 Lingfield, an 8-runner, Class 2, 4yo+ fillies' A/W handicap over a left handed 1m2f on standard polytrack. It's the Winter Oaks and is worth over £50k and we do have a short-priced fav, but let's see how Morgan Fairy might get on against these...

I normally do my piece before the markets have fully formed, but today I can see the full picture and the betting seems to spilt the field into two halves...

...and my own figures also have the same spilt, where I'm expecting Al Agaila, Purple Ribbon, Morgan Fairy and Makinmedoit as the ones to focus on, but I'm going to see if a case can be made for a longer-priced E/W punt.

The Flying Ginger is the only one of the field without a win in her most recent form line and I'm going to dismiss her straight from the start because she's not in great form, her yard isn't firing right now, she's up two classes and runs from 6lbs out of the handicap. That's probably as many negatives as one needs!

As for the others, all have at least one win from five, Makinmedoit and Al Agaila have two and the latter is one of three (with Morgan Fairy & Aiming High) who won last time out. Fetured horse, Morgan Fairy is up one class here whilst At A Pinch and Aiming High are up two and three grades respectively. Top weight, Purple Ribbon, however was a runner-up, beaten by just a neck in a Listed race whern last seen.

The fav, Al Agaila, won on handicap debut last time out, landing the Winter Oaks Trial here over course and distance with the re-opposing Makinmedoit & Tequilamockingbird separated by a short head, some 2.5 lengths behind the winner. All three of those horses have now won over this course and distance.

At A Pinch makes a handicap debut here and she's the only one without a win at track or trip and hasn't raced on the Flat/AW for fifteen months, which will make this tough. After the three C&D winners, only Morgan Fairy has won at this venue, getting home by a neck over a mile on New Year's Eve.

All eight have run in the last eight weeks with just The Flying Ginger and Aiming High with a run in 2023. This pair are the only two yet to win on standard going, half of the field are previous Class 2 winners and we've already talked about course/distance winners. Instant Expert brings all this data together in a simple-to-view graphic...

As per the market and my own figures, Makinmedoit and Al Agaila feature strongly. Purple Ribbon has little experience and is without a Class 2 run, but did come very close to landing a Listed race last time out. Morgan Fairy tackles an A/W 1m2f for the first time here after running mainly over a mile, so may have to dig deep.

Of the lesser favoured half of the field, Tequilamockingbird is the one most likely to "win" that race on these figures. She has 3 wins and 2 places from 7 A/W starts, finishing 113 in her three visits to Lingfield all over course and distance.

She's drawn in stall 6, one place inside Makinmedoit, whilst the other three principals have bagged the inside three berths over a course and distance that would initially appear to favour those drawn lowest...

...but stall-by-stall data suggests that it's not quite that clear-cut...

...and I personally, wouldn't be too concerned which of the eight stalls my runner emerged from to be honest. Ideally, stalls 2 or 3 would be great, but even box 8 has won as often as #3. The Geegeez Pace/Draw heat map would tend to suggest tht this race could be won/lost by where in the field a horse positions itself..

..as aside from low drawn leaders, prominent runners are the most successful irrespective of draw and this is backed up by the pace stats for those 130+ races above...

These say to that a hold-up runner represents your worst chance of getting any money back from an E/W perspective and the win chance is almost as poor as those in mid-division. Mid-div horses do make the frame almost as often as prominent runners, but I think you're going to want a runner in the front half of the pack and based on this field's most recent runs...

...that's yet another tick for Al Agaila, but interestingly both Purple Ribbon and Makinmedoit are hold-up types. The latter, of course was second to the fav here LTO from that hold-up position, so it might not necessarily rule her out, especially as she's now 10lbs better off!

So, from my original four Al Agaila is the low drawn leader we looked for, Morgan Fairy is likely to be prominent, as also possible E/W punt Tequilamockingbird should be.

Summary

I started with four 'most likelys' and I think they're still exactly that, but it's very hard to get away from the 10/11 favourite Al Agaila. My pockets aren't deep enough to have a large enough bet to make it worthwhile, but if I did then she'd be the one here for me. That said, Makinmedoit is now 10lbs better than her runner-up run LTO which should get her much closer to the fav (on paper), although you suspect there's far more to come from the winner.

At 9/1, though, Makinmedoit wouldn't be a bad E/W prospect and at as big as 16's in places, nor would Teqiulamockingbird. I still think Purple Ribbon and Morgan fairy will run well, but they're not my idea of a winner in this race and aren't long enough for me to back E/W.

Whatever happens, it has the makings of a decent contest.

 

Racing Insights, Friday 13/01/23

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Friday is Horses For Courses (H4C) report day at Geegeez and this feature does exactly what you'd expect, as it shows the full course history since 2009 of any horse running that has previously had a run at that track, sorted by number of wins, but this can be changed to any column at your discretion.

As well as today’s race time, course, horse name, jockey and trainer name, there is a breakdown of runs, wins and places, and profit and loss calculations for both win and each way betting. And as with all Geegeez reports, there is a ‘Today’ and a ‘Tomorrow’ (for the next day’s racing) view.

HINT: Layers might like to look towards the lower end of the report, for those with negative performance at the track, but please refer to our User Guide for further information.

My chosen settings for the H4C report...

...have yielded the following trio of  qualifiers for Friday...

...and I can still fall back upon our daily list of 'free' races...

  • 2.40 Lingfield
  • 3.00 Huntingdon
  • 3.30 Huntingdon
  • 3.55 Dundalk
  • 4.00 Huntingdon

Three on the bounce from Huntingdon hardly seems random, but that's the luck of the draw and I think I'm going to shun the free races to look at the two H4C report horses in the 3.40 Lingfield, a 7-runner, Class 5, 4yo+ fillies A/W handicap over a left-handed 1m2f on standard polytrack...

No LTO winners here, but Rikona won two starts ago and was a runner-up on her last outing. Sundayinmay was also a recent runner-up, as she has been three times in her last five contests. Elsewhere no real form to consider.

D Day Odette has made the frame just once in her eight winless race career and she now drops in class to run here, but both Sundayinmay and Miss Elsa step up a level. Connections of another 8-race maiden, Thefastnthecurious, will hope that a first-time visor helps their mare make the frame for the first on the A/W after three failures to date.

Yet despite the field's apparent poor form and lack of wins, three of the seven (Rikona, Midgetonamission and Miss Elsa) have all scored over course and distance, whilst Sundayinmay is two from three over a mile and a half on this track. Star from Afarhh, like the two maidens mentioned above, has failed to win at either track or trip.

She (Star) has been off the track the longest of this group, but at 37 days since her last run, the lay-off shouldn't really matter. Only Rikona has raced in 2023, finishing half a length behind the winner over 1m3f at Southwell on New Year's Day. She's one of four 4 yr olds in the race with Miss Elsa the "veteran" at seven!

With this field having a combined win & place percentages of 11.48% and 31.97% respectively (39 places including 14 wins from a combined 122 starts), I'm not to hopeful of gleaning much from Instant Expert, but you never know until you look...

We're obviously only going to get reds from the two maidens at the top of the card and most of these have toiled at Class 5, but Miss Elsa has respectable figures at least, especially just on the All-Weather and at 16lbs lower than her last win, might be well weighted here. The two runners drawn lowest have the best records here at Lingfield. With the lack of much data action above, I think I should see if the overall & A/W place figures can help us...

...where Rikona looks a very strong candidate to make the frame here, as do Sundayinmay and Miss Elsa. Midgetonamission loves it here at Lingfield and gets the trip readily, but all her form is at Class 6. It's interesting (to me, anyway) that the two that look best on that last graphic are drawn at polar opposites in the stalls in berths 1 and 7, so it's time to consult the draw analyser to see which, if any, of them might be best suited. My usual caveat is in place, of course, that over 10f, the draw should have the same effect as over 5f, but let's check that draw analyser...

And aside from what looks an anomalous set of figures for stall 4 (poor Star from Afarhh), my caveat seems to be pretty accurate. Yes high draws do better than low draws, but if you look at the actual data, there's really very little in it...

The Pace Analyser, however, does give us more to work with from those races above...

...showing a pretty clear advantage to biding one's time in mid-division. We log how every horse runs in the UK and we can show you the last four outings for each of these seven runners and it's a score of around 2 we're looking for. Higher is OK, but hold-up horses haven't done well at all..

...and we've got a mixed bag here. Miss Elsa likes to race prominently, but tends not to lead. Rikona's best form has come from a hold-up position. I'd expect Thefastnthecurious to be fairly advanced in the field with Miss Elsa. Sundayinmay and D Day Odette look like our mid-div runners we were looking for and although Star from Afarrh led last time out, I suspect she'll be held up with Midgetonamission.

There's a fair bit of conjecture and interpretation there, admittedly, but I think Sundayinmay just about shades the pace verdict, as she marginally did on draw. We can combine the draw & pace data to form our unique Geegeez heat maps as follow...

...where mid to high drawn mid div runners win most often closely followed by the high drawn leaders, whilst the high drawn mid-div runners & leaders again score well on places. Based on what we've seen above, here's how I think the race might unfold in draw order...

In truth, I think it's going to be a falsely-run race with nobody really wanting to take it on and that would just play into the hands of the 'better' runners here. A few of these might be better off breaking out and having a go at it, most are expected to lose anyway.

Summary

For me the two best runners in the race are Rikona and Sundayinmay, sadly the bookies (as of 4.50pm) agree with me and have them as 11/8 and 5/2 market principals and it's probably an indictment of how poor the race is when the top weight and 8-race maiden (D  Day Odette) is next in line at 4/1. If any were to emerge from the pack to challenge the favourites, then Midgetonamission certainly loves it here and at 18/1 with both Hills & Bet365 paying three places, she might be worth a couple of pennies as an E/W interest.

The 1-2, however, should be Rikona and Sundayinmay and I think I'd like the latter from the H4C report to beat the former.